Roster Limits and NIL with Lauren Smith (Path Fore Success)

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to our very first episode of. [00:00:04] Speaker B: From the CART Path. [00:00:06] Speaker A: I'm your host, Trent Roberts. Over the last four years as a parent, I've been on a similar journey as many of you, navigating the world of youth golf. I have grappled with the same questions. Where to go, which teachers to work with and what tournaments to play in. And now, as we enter the recruitment phase, I'm learning to be a parent and support her decisions. I have two goals in mind for this podcast. One, to help everyone learn about all things junior golf. Two, promote and recognize the players from our state. As a parent, I understand the quest for answers and at the same time, your player is constantly learning and growing. We're all part of this journey, navigating the challenges and celebrating the victories together. I hope you enjoy the journey and continue to learn. Just like me, we are all trying to do what is best for our children. As we record more podcasts, I will bring on the experts, players and much more. Let's continue to learn together. Before we begin, please know that we will promote our players and ensure their names are out there. As a parent, I see the gap of recognition out there for our kids. [00:01:51] Speaker B: Hey everyone, this is Trent Roberts with from the CART Path. As we discussed in the past, you all were asking for a conversation on roster limits and the nil and what's the current status of what's going on in Division 1 golf with the NCAA? I have a special guest with us today. It's Lauren Smith. She's from a co founder from Path4Success. It's a junior golf recruiting mentorship that aims to educate the players and their families through the junior recruiting process, which is getting more competitive every year. And I think Lauren and I have talked about that many times that golf is getting more and more competitive. And just a quick side note on Lauren, she attended UNC Greensboro for two years and then transferred to Appalachian State where she finished her collegiate career. While there, she won two individual wins and she says she still owns the 18, 36 and 54 hole records. After she graduated, she worked as an assistant coach for Appalachian State for one year. She then moved down to Atlanta, Georgia because they had more people living there, as my guess, than Appalachian State. And then she was the assistant coach there for five years. And I believe while she was there she learned a ton of information on the recruiting world, what to look for and how to discuss it. And that's why she started doing what she's doing today. So, hey Lauren, welcome to the show. And I'm more than Excited to have you here. As a real quick side note, so everyone is aware, Lauren and I work together today with our daughter, Sophie Roberts. And Sophie is mentored by Lauren in more ways than just being a recruiting service. She actually does so much more with Sophie, and we'll talk about that towards the end of the show. But again, Lauren, welcome to the show. [00:03:34] Speaker C: Thanks, Trent, for having me. I'm excited to be here and hopefully we can help some of these families out with the madness going on in college golf right now. [00:03:42] Speaker B: So tell me a little bit about that. How crazy has it been over the last 24 months with this? [00:03:47] Speaker C: And I think we're in unprecedented times right now in college athletics. You know, I look back into my college playing career, my recruiting process almost 20 years ago, hurts to say, but, you know, things are so much different. The competitive, the competitiveness of women's golf in particular has risen so much. The amount of tournaments available, everything on the women's game has changed. Men's golf has been, you know, competitive since I can remember. But the last 24 months in college golf, it's been a whirlwind. And I want to make sure that everyone listening to this knows that it's still changing. Things that we might discuss right now could change tomorrow. And it's definitely a different world we're living in, but we're here to, you know, try to help you through the process and, yeah, try to educate. And I think that's one of the main things that we do is whether, you know, the rules change tonight or tomorrow. We're going to try to provide the best information that we can and go from there. [00:04:51] Speaker B: So. So what is the roster limits? How many players can be on the team starting next year and what's going on with that? [00:04:57] Speaker C: Yeah, starting in 2025, if your college opts in to the new roster limit rules, a college team can host up to nine players on a roster. And for some of you who aren't familiar with college golf, before the fall of 2025, college golf had no roster limits. You can go on to a college website right now and look up a roster and see anywhere between seven to 14 to 15 kids on a team, and each coach handles their roster differently. But starting in the fall of 2025, you know, like I said, if each, each college has the opportunity to opt in and that will create a roster limit starting at nine players, that's something that's never been done in college golf before. And it's going to be interesting to see the effect that this has on the recruiting process and what these coaches are going to do, because I think a lot of them are scratching their heads right now. [00:06:02] Speaker B: What's the difference between opting in? What's that mean and what's opting out? Is that going to be a conference decision or a school decision? [00:06:09] Speaker C: So from right now, what we're learning, a lot of conferences are making the decision as a whole. I have talked to some college coaches at the mid tier D1 level to a lower D1 level, and we can talk about that as well. But whose schools are not opting in? Now, what that means is that they will still follow the rules like they have been pre2025. You know, they can hold up to 10, 12 kids, however many they want, but, you know, for the most part, it's looking like your power. Four or five conferences, they're all going to abide by these rules. There are figures out there that even some of the bigger schools, like the SEC may only hold eight roster limits, eight roster spots. And I think that's all work that's still being, you know, defined and ironed out before the fall of 2025. It. It's just going to change the way recruiting looks and we're in for a ride on a roller coaster. So buckle up. [00:07:06] Speaker B: So what changes will they have? If you opt in, will you get more scholarships? And if you opt out, will you have no scholarships? Because I saw where the Ivy League is opting out. They're going to remain who they are. But obviously Ivy League schools, I don't believe athletic scholarships. [00:07:23] Speaker C: That's correct. [00:07:24] Speaker B: So what's. [00:07:25] Speaker C: So right now, Pre fall of 2025, a fully funded D1 men's golf program has four and a half scholarships to give, and a D1 fully funded women's program is allowed six scholarships. The unique part about that is that the college coach can divide those scholarships however they want. So if a women's roster has 12 girls on it, hypothetically, a college golf coach could split six scholarships in half and every girl on their roster could have a 50% scholarship. Now, that doesn't include academic money that a kid might be bringing in, some things like that. But starting in fall of 2025, it's looking like there will be nine total scholarships to give. But the other thing is that there won't be more than nine kids on the roster. So we're ultimately losing spots at some. [00:08:20] Speaker B: Of these schools, possibly getting more money. But what schools actually will give those programs more money for more scholarships? And I don't. [00:08:31] Speaker C: Yeah, I don't think we have the answer to that. I think ultimately right now the changes we're seeing in college sports are fueled by the success of most football programs. Ultimately, I think we all know women's golf, men's golf, we're not revenue generating sports and we probably never will be. And that's not against golf. I love golf. We love golf. Probably everyone listening to this loves golf. But ultimately we're just not bringing in the dough like our football person programs. So, you know, I think with the changes coming down the pipeline, it'll all be affected by your football, some men's basketball, women's basketball teams, depending on the school, depending on, you know, where you are in the country. But it's just there's a lot going. [00:09:11] Speaker B: On and nobody knows what direction we're going and no one knows what's happening. And I think one of the things we were talking about before on the NIL side, and we'll go back and forth here is you just told me the average. Was it correct? [00:09:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:09:27] Speaker B: So what's for a men's golfer versus a men's golfer? [00:09:30] Speaker C: Yep. [00:09:32] Speaker B: Blew my mind. Yeah. What's the average here? [00:09:35] Speaker C: So to, to rewind a little bit. NIL stands for name, image, likeness. This was a law passed basically in 2021 that is allowing student athletes to profit off of their name, image or likeness. It. It's something that has maybe been coming for a long time. A lot of it, a lot of people don't agree with it. It's not for me to have an opinion on. I just have to go with the flow and, you know, work around what the new rules are. But yeah, I pulled information from the NIL data dashboard that is public knowledge. I will send you the link so you can send it out to the people listening. But in 2024, between January 1, 2024, October 31, 2024, the average dollar amount that a women's golfer made that was published to the NCAA was 98 bucks. [00:10:29] Speaker B: That's huge. [00:10:30] Speaker C: Yep. [00:10:30] Speaker B: $98. Could you imagine? [00:10:32] Speaker C: Yep. [00:10:33] Speaker B: Watch out what they can't buy with. With only $98. It's kind of sick when you think about it, that what's the point? [00:10:39] Speaker C: Yeah. And on the men's side, the average dollar amount made was 72 bucks. [00:10:44] Speaker B: I told you earlier, I want more money, Lauren. [00:10:46] Speaker C: Yeah, don't we all? [00:10:48] Speaker B: Yeah. It's $72 for men, 98 for women, and you can't do anything with that. So like you said earlier, it's going to be the Roseanne's of the world, when they go to college, they might be getting something or the Auburns of the world, the Stanfords of the world. But when we're talking Appalachian State, we're talking Ball State, we're talking Valparaiso, we're talking Indiana State, that's not going to be there. [00:11:10] Speaker C: Correct. And I think that's something that in the nil talk I really want to get across. I think we can spend a lot of time talking about it. But ultimately, like you said, if your kid's not Tiger woods or Annika Sorenstam or Nelly ka, the data shows they're not going to make much money. And I think, you know, it's right now and that doesn't mean in the future. You know, in 2026, 2027, things can change. But I think right now my biggest suggestion for everyone listening, especially if your goal is to play D1 golf, you need to go play D1 golf because your heart wants to play D1 golf and because you have the passion to play Division 1 golf. It's like I said, we're not a revenue generating sport. And if you're going to play college golf for the money, most of us are doing it for the wrong reasons and we probably picked the wrong sport a couple, couple years ago to make money in college. But it's not saying that, you know, these, these kids aren't doing deals with a local ice cream shop in town or a local diner or a local car company that's giving you a car mat for your 2010 car. Or what? [00:12:21] Speaker B: That's what a college golfer gets is a free 2010 car for the dealership. [00:12:25] Speaker C: Exactly. So not even a car but a mat for your car. So. [00:12:28] Speaker B: Yeah, right. [00:12:30] Speaker C: Yeah. And I'm not saying that that's not happening. And yes, there are exceptions to the rule. You know, there are big name golfers out there who are signing bigger deals. But for the most part, you know, 99.9% of the golfers right now playing college golf, like I said, are making between 72 and 98 bucks. [00:12:49] Speaker B: So how is this hurting the 2025s? And how is this affecting the 2026. [00:12:54] Speaker C: Is right now the roster limits we'll put nil to the side. Right now the roster limit rules are changing everything. And we work with 2025s, 2026s, 2027s and college coaches have been really honest with us. And I think right now honesty is the best policy. The 2025 high school grads who are looking to verbally commit and a D1, you know, facility. Their home have come across a lot of speed bumps and a lot of college coaches are looking at the old transfer portal. Something we haven't talked about yet. And what this roster limit, you know, initiation in the fall of 2025 will do is kick out a lot of kids into the portal because they no longer will have a. A place to play. And now you're talking about mid tier D1 schools making a decision on recruiting high school kids or college kids with a year or two under their belt. Now, to put it frankly, they've got really tough decisions ahead. [00:14:01] Speaker B: They do. [00:14:02] Speaker C: And I don't envy, you know, I was a college coach for six years, basically. I don't envy the decisions they're having to make. I think a lot of these coaches are having a tough time sleeping at night. I've talked to quite a few of them who don't even know the direction that their program's going yet. And they're gonna, you know, they're going about business as usual. But it doesn't mean that a verbal commitment that, you know, they made to a 2026 grad right now might have to be axed because they're gonna have to get rid of two or three kids if their school ends up opting into the roster limits. So, yeah, it's. It's a headache. And I think, you know, persistence is key. We have a lot of cases for the 2025 class who got notification the week before signing that their scholarship agreement that was verbally agreed on no longer stood. So you had a lot of kids who ended up having to make alternate arrangements. And I feel for those kids and I feel for the coaches, too. You know, it's not an easy decision. It's basically like asking parents to pick a favorite kid. And, you know, I've. I have two loving parents, and I claim to always be the favorite, but I know in my heart of hearts your parents don't have favorites. Right? So. Yeah, exactly. So I don't envy these coaches having to make a call on whether, you know, player A or player B is the right decision for their team. And it might be a decision that they regret in a year or two. What's. [00:15:27] Speaker B: Lauren, what is interesting is before we did this conversation, I went to every website of all the D1 programs in the state of Indiana for men and women, and many of them have over nine players. The interesting thing is then I went back and counted the seniors y. You could see how many players do these schools actually have graduating and Then how many roster spots do they have left? Yep, from what I am seeing and again, it depends on how many players does do one of these schools want to keep. [00:15:56] Speaker C: Right. [00:15:57] Speaker B: There's only one school in the state of Indiana that stood out to me that's going to have some issues and that was the University of Evansville. And they have 14 men on the roster, two seniors. What's that tell you? It's like if Missouri Valley decides to go this opt in, they're going to have to get rid of three players on the men's side and on the women's side they have 12 women on the team currently. Again, this is all according to their websites. Things could have changed. [00:16:22] Speaker C: Right. [00:16:22] Speaker B: They've got two seniors. That leaves them with. They've got to have someone move on to a different school. [00:16:28] Speaker C: Right. [00:16:29] Speaker B: So that's what we're talking about here. The other schools I feel like are positioned pretty well. From what I'm looking at, it looks like IU and Purdue are both in great spots. Ball State's got themselves in a good position, so I am seeing that. So the state schools in Indiana seem to be in a good spot except for Evansville. And I'll get that information out to the people as well because I think it's good to see and I think it's good if you're a parent or a player. You need to be looking at the websites and we've talked about many reasons why, but I think right now is how many seniors do they have? If I'm a 20, 25, if I'm a 20, 26, how many junior players do they have? [00:17:07] Speaker C: Right. Yep. And that's when the, you know, when in the college recruiting process when the time comes for you to legally speak to the college coach. [00:17:16] Speaker B: June 15th. [00:17:17] Speaker C: Yeah. And the college after sophomore year and the college coach can talk back to you. It's really important to have open conversations and it's really important that you don't get your heart set on right now because I really do think that the roster limit rule will make college golf stronger on what we have historically called the mid tier level. [00:17:39] Speaker B: I would agree. [00:17:40] Speaker C: And you're, you're going to see that these mid tier schools start getting, you know, your, your 9th and 10th player from Georgia or North Carolina or Tennessee or these schools where these kids aren't getting a chance right now to play where they could transfer to a smaller school and be really competitive and play in the top five and something. [00:18:02] Speaker B: I'm taking this a different direction because I think part of what we're talking about is the mid tier programs and the lower tier Division 1 programs. [00:18:09] Speaker C: Yep. [00:18:09] Speaker B: One of the things you've told me that is interesting and why kids should be looking at all programs, not just their dream schools. Right. Their reach schools that we've, as we have discussed in the past today Illinois State playing at the same tournament as Florida, or I think it was the other day I was looking at some other schools where Eastern Michigan was at the same tournament as Purdue in Kansas. [00:18:33] Speaker C: Right. [00:18:33] Speaker B: So what's going on there to where the mid tier, lower tier are going to see more opportunities? [00:18:38] Speaker C: Yeah. So it's a great point too. And I think we're definitely going to see a more competitive playing field. When it comes to college golf especially, you're going to see a big difference on the women's side. The men's side has followed this rule for the past couple of years, but it's a rule called the.500 winning percentage, basically. And that ultimately means that if a team wants to qualify for postseason play, they have to have a.500 percentage winning record against the teams they play. So if I'm the coach at Purdue or Tennessee or Wisconsin or Stanford and I'm hosting a tournament and we need wins, I'm most likely going to invite what historically we've called the little guys. And it's nothing against those teams. But if I need my players and our school needs wins, historically inviting some of those schools like an Appalachian State or a, you know, Butler, something like that, most of the times those bigger schools can knock off a smaller school in a tournament and ultimately that makes them eligible for postseason play. Now that's been happening on the men's side. So you'll see, you know, you can pull up the men's side and see competitive playing fields. The women's side, that is new as of this year, I believe 2024. So you can see schools like you said, Indiana playing with maybe Indiana State or Tennessee playing with Tennessee Tech. And these are all, you know, I'm not saying that's the truth, but you can go on and look at scoreboards. I know one of the big tournaments coming up here in North Carolina, you've got NC State hosting BAs basically every in state school in North Carolina. And you're talking about schools who historically in the past wouldn't even play each other just because it wasn't worth it. [00:20:28] Speaker B: And that's going to help their recruiting at the mid tier and lower tiered level because players do look at schedules. [00:20:34] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. And I think it's important Too. With all these changes going on, you. Whether you stay close to home or, you know, you want to go to the Southeast and play golf, or you want to go, you know, to the southwest and play golf, most of the time, these college events are taking place at pretty nice golf courses. You're playing in a quality field. And ultimately, at the end of the day, part of my job in the recruiting process is to ask you as a player, you as a parent, do you want to play golf? Do you want to have a good experience? And do you want to look back at your four, five years and say, dang, I would do that again. Most of the time, the answer is, yeah, like, I want to have that experience. So now we're looking at schools, and that's why I say keep your options open. You don't know that was your original question to this, but it's important to keep your options open. We don't know what the future of college golf really looks like. And, yeah, you know, our picture is being painted a little clear, but it's still a little foggy, a little gray. And I think, you know, over time, we're gonna see, yeah. That it's gonna be a little clearer. But until then, I say keep your options open. Try not to burn bridges. The college golf world is really small, and the junior golf world is really small, And I think 100%, yeah. And you learn that, you know, a coach that you may have thought was your dream spot, dream scenario, well, you end up seeing that coach at every tournament you play in, and you never know what might happen in a year or two down the road and where that coach might end up or where you might end up as a player. So, yeah, that's. That's kind of what the landscape's looking like right now. [00:22:06] Speaker B: So. So taking this a little bit of a sidestep, and obviously our relationship stems from some people that we've met, that we've seen go through the process, and now we're watching Sophie go through this process. Big thing for me is we were at Indiana's college golf recruiting seminar the other day, and every coach gets on that stage. We don't like recruiting services. [00:22:33] Speaker C: Yep. [00:22:34] Speaker B: And I know. I'm sitting there going. When I've tried to discuss with people that I have spoken to about who you guys are. [00:22:41] Speaker C: Right. [00:22:42] Speaker B: They hear, well, we don't need this. And I go, there's a difference. The big thing for me is the. Whatever you want to call that thing that IMG runs down south. That's a service that, like, you have told me they're not going to show up to a tournament and watch my kid play. [00:23:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:00] Speaker B: And I want everybody to know this. When the girls IHSA state championships were this past fall, in October, Lauren and her business partner Carrie came up to watch the state championships in Indiana. And I want to talk a little bit about this first before we go into the other part, because you know me, I'm going to go in 25 different directions and lead back to where we need to go. But I want to know about your experience coming up to see that compared to other state championships you've been at. [00:23:29] Speaker C: Yeah. So when I was. Obviously, I played in four state championships myself in North Carolina, and I recruited the North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama state championships. And when we had the ability to go to Indiana. And what was that? October of 2024, I was honestly blown away by the production that's put on the quality of the golf course that the girls were able to play on. The camaraderie of. Yeah, like, you tee up and you want to beat the brains out of your competitors. Right. But at the end of the day, your friends and. But the competitiveness while still respecting your playing partners, the amount of people that were there to support those girls, that's crazy. But I mean, I've been to some LPGA events and smaller venues, and there were almost more people at the Indiana High School State Athletic Golf Championship than there have been at some LPGA events. I mean, I think one of the schools even let their entire student body off for the day to go. [00:24:37] Speaker B: High school does that. Yeah, they've always done that. [00:24:40] Speaker C: Yeah. And that, you know, it means a lot. And I remember watching, you know, a lot of the girls come through, and I thought, wow, you know, I was nervous for them. They were playing in front of a lot of people. But I think it's a great experience. And, you know, the support that Indiana gives those girls was. It's pretty fascinating. And, you know, it was. It was an honor to be up there and see it in action, because I think you have to kind of see it, to believe it and to be able to see it and believe it. I believe it. Yeah, you definitely did it. Right. [00:25:09] Speaker B: So that's one thing I want to point out to people. You aren't just someone that does things like send emails, do that stuff. You guys don't do that. [00:25:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:18] Speaker B: And first thing I wanted to point out was you guys have been out to watch. Yeah, we have been down in North Carolina to where you caddied for Sophie at a tournament. And then just this past December, we were down in Pine Nurse at Pine Needles. You guys spent the entire day and the weather that you want to blame me for bringing down there, and I know the other, and I won't mention the other player, and even in her family was blaming me for the weather. [00:25:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:44] Speaker B: And you guys spent the day with them to prepare them for that course. [00:25:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:50] Speaker B: So I want people to understand there's a difference between whatever that thing's called down south and what you guys do. Can you talk a little bit about what you guys do for your players besides your mentorship? I mean, go into everything and I'm okay. [00:26:03] Speaker C: Yeah. And I appreciate you pointing that out. And I think, you know, we get a lot of questions. Why. Why should we choose you over, you know, somewhere that we can just pay money? [00:26:11] Speaker B: Is it the ncsa? [00:26:12] Speaker C: Yeah, NCSA there. There's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of recruiting services out there, and I think it's important. First off, like you said, I. My bread and butter is by being on the golf course. You know, that's where my college coaching experience comes in. I can sit behind a computer and come up with, you know, email templates to try to help these kids out. But ultimately, the coach wants to hear from the kid. Like, that's the kid's responsibility to send out that information. It's. It's our job to make sure that that's happening. But I want to be on the golf course. I think in order for these players to become better, they need, you know, mentors on the golf course. Now we're trying to bridge the gap in junior golf so that there's not such a learning curve when they get to college. And I think that's the big thing, spending that practice round with them. And that was some of the worst practice round weather I remember. But, you know, yeah, I mean, it's 42 degrees and raining and no one wants to be out there. But when it's time to play college golf, it doesn't matter what the weather is. We're playing in those conditions. And I think that's important, too. You know, all. All the carts that drove by as we remained on the course and girls just checking it out, like the. The time you put in now, it makes a difference. In a couple of years, it might not mean something that, you know, particular event. But I love spending time on the golf course. And I try to say from the get go, I'm not your swing coach. I love looking at golf swings. But that's not my cup of tea. I'll leave that to the professionals. But when you talk about course management and making, you know, those special relationships with college coaches, being able to introduce kids to coaches that I've known from my playing time, that I knew from my coaching time, those are things that a lot of these services don't do. You know, spending a day caddying for a kid is, you know, something that we take pride in, whether it's good, bad, or ugly. But you learn a lot about the player and, you know, having that ability to be out with them on the golf course, learning their tendencies, and then after the tournament, not saying, oh, my God, I can't believe you hit that shot, but going in and saying, hey, this is what I saw. Let's talk about it in a day or two. And I think that's important, too. You know, the. The reactions from parents after rounds. But those are things that I love to do that you're not going to see from a recruiting service. They're not going to send out a person to see how your practice rounds go. You know, some of the resources that we have available to us through clips, you know, really learning the nitty gritty. And that's probably a podcast for later on, but. [00:28:46] Speaker B: Well, that. That and tugger. Right. Because, you know, I'm a big fan of the universal golf rankings. [00:28:50] Speaker C: Yep, yep. Rankings is a huge thing. Clipped. Understanding their golf game more. I think it's one thing when you're a young junior golfer to say, oh, I shot 75 or 80, great. But how. How did that happen? Why, you know, why did you shoot 75? Where could we have saved a shot? Where could we have saved two or three shots? Those are all things that we have the ability to do now. And I think, you know, all the. The parents and the kids that we work with see that, you know, we. We can be a benefit to their golf game and not. Not just a website that you visit. You know, not a lot of those services give out personal cell phone numbers. We get calls all throughout the day. We get tournament updates. Good, bad, ugly. It's our job to pick them up when they're not feeling good. It's our job to praise them when it's going really well. And I think we kind of act as, you know, older. Well, I guess much older sisters or, you know, family. [00:29:44] Speaker B: I think that's a great word for it because I remember when Sophie had a good round at a high school tournament this year. You were probably our second or third phone call. Yeah, because she wanted you guys to know how the day went because she was that excited. Because when she does have your calls with her, when you two talk, it is not just, hey, Sophie, did you get those emails out? It's. [00:30:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:09] Speaker B: How are you playing? What's going on now? Carrie on the other side, is that other part of the business for you guys? [00:30:15] Speaker C: Yeah, and I, and I don't. [00:30:16] Speaker B: What's Carrie do? [00:30:17] Speaker C: Yeah, I don't want to leave Carrie out of this because she's a huge part of how we are successful a little bit. [00:30:23] Speaker B: Carrie does do some work. [00:30:25] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. She. She has a background. She also played college golf and we were teammates at App State together. And yeah, she has a background in website development and social media skills, things that I literally know nothing about. And she talking about nil. You know, building a brand for yourself is something that we're starting to work on. And I think, you know, whether you're making, what is it, 98 bucks a month or whatever, it's important to have a brand. And ultimately college coaches want to see that you're putting effort into that side of things too. And that's where Carrie comes in. She helps build, you know, their social media pages with the player and develop web pages that coaches can see more information on them. And I think, you know, those are the special things that we do that you're not going to get from a big company. And, you know, the, like I said, us showing up to an event and being mentors and whether it's 100 degrees or 40 degrees, where we're gonna be there for them, and we do. Yeah, well, hey, we're out there, so. But, you know, I think it's, it's important that the people that we work with know that we're there for them and that we can be that first or second call. I mean, it's so exciting when we have kids make college visits and they call us before they call mom or dad. They're like, this is what I found out about campus. I really love the coach. You know, this is what I feel about this campus. I'm gonna make a pros cons list. That's. That's awesome. That's what we want. That's how we help, you know, narrow down the search. And I think it's so rewarding to see players have success stories. And every player, you know, success looks different on every player. And, you know, whether that's being an awesome academic student at a D3 school or a top tier D1 player who has a Chance to play pro. I think, you know, they're right now is a spot for everyone. And I think it's important. Yeah. And I think it's important that we have the tools to help those kids, their parents, open up their eyes to all of the options out there. And. But, yeah, it's. It's a really rewarding process, and it is. [00:32:36] Speaker B: And I think it's a reality check, too, sometimes for the kids, because they all come in thinking, I can play at XYZ school, and then you guys can sit them down and be real with them as well. And I think that's beneficial for everyone involved because, like we've said, every parent thinks their kid's the best player, and we need to go through that conversation as well as what's going to be the best place for our kid. And I think as you go through the process, you start realizing, well, what do you want to major in? What do you want to go after? Because there will be life after golf. Not everyone is going to be on the LPGA Tour, and once you learn what life is going to be like after golf, we can start narrowing down even more. And we've been having that conversation at home lately, so I think it's been helpful. [00:33:18] Speaker C: Yeah, And I think it's important. I mean, you. You nailed it on the head there. It's. For 99.9% of us, there is life after golf, and it doesn't mean that golf can't be a part of your life. But most of us are not playing professional golf in college, and I think it's important. And, yeah, I'm not saying that the 13, Lauren. [00:33:35] Speaker B: I can join the Senior Tour. [00:33:37] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. You're almost there. [00:33:39] Speaker B: Almost there. [00:33:40] Speaker C: Yeah. So, you know, when you're 13, 14, 15, 16 years old, I don't expect you to know what you want to study. Yeah, we have special cases where kids are just really passionate about, you know, a certain major or, you know, their parents might be vets, and they want to go, you know, just whatever it might be. But, you know, ultimately, most of the kids that we work with, they have no idea. And that's okay. And that's part of the process, too, you know, kind of weeding out. Well, what are your likes? What are your dislikes? Likes. Do you like math? Do you like science? Do you like reading? Like, what? That's. That's where I think we're special. Like, we really want to get to know you before, just put you into the system and let you go. [00:34:16] Speaker B: Send me my check for this. We'll get you in the system. And then the interesting thing was, and you heard every coach talk about it. I know Cam from Ball State even made the comment of, I get 10, 15 emails a day. If I see those, it's. I want to see from the players. I want to hear from the players. [00:34:34] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:34:35] Speaker B: Not from the services. And I think that's the difference, and I think too, is they're the ones reaching out. You're not reaching out. The kids are. You're consulting them through that process. [00:34:45] Speaker C: So, yep, we. We try to push that. The kid does the work. We're there. We're there every step of the way behind the scenes to make sure that the work is being done, basically. But, yeah, I mean, if I'm a college coach and I, like I said, I was a college coach for six years, I don't want to see an email from, you know, recruiting company XYZ that they have a kid for me. I want to hear from the kid directly. Why does that kid think that they're the right fit for my program? [00:35:10] Speaker B: And so let me stop you for a second, because sometimes I think we just have a little fun. Tell me your favorite recruiting moment and one where you're like, what the heck is going on? [00:35:23] Speaker C: So I'll start with what the heck is going on? PSA to all parents that are potentially listening to this, you are more important in your child's recruiting process than you know. I would highly suggest trying to stay away from wearing specific college gear when your kid is being recruited by schools from all over the country. I had a special case when I was recruiting a kid. I was at Georgia State and really interested in a kid. Their dad was there following them, wearing a. Another school's clothes, hat, all that stuff. Now, I'm not saying it hurt the kids process, but it hurt the kids process it. And I'm not saying that. That dad can't be helped, you know, happy about maybe that was his alma mater. And those are all things that, sure, it might be. But don't do things that might hinder your kids pro, you know, recruiting process. And that's one of the ones it gets me every time, you know, you. You go out to recruit and your, you know, mom graduated from Florida and she's a huge Gators fan, but your goal is to play Gol Georgia. And so your mom's wearing gator gear and the Georgia coach shows up and sees that, and it's kind of like a, you know, what the heck are you doing kind of thing. So that, yeah, that's one of the things. [00:36:36] Speaker B: And I think it's so. I think it's okay. Do you think it's okay for a kid to be a fan of a school and make the post and repost? I think that might be different too, because again, I think, like, if I go on a college campus and we get invited to do a campus visit. You're right. I'm not going to wear my favorite school or my alma mater's gear to that. It's going to be, if anything, I'm going to buy a shirt for that school so I can wear it while I'm there to be like, hey, I'm in. Yeah, I would never do that to my child. At where, you know, I'm a huge Wisconsin basketball fan and football fan. I'm not going to wear Wisconsin gear to. If she goes and visits another Big Ten program. [00:37:14] Speaker C: Right. [00:37:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:15] Speaker C: And good point there. Yeah. I think. And any college coach will tell you to, like, we all grow up as fans of schools, right? I mean, you know, from. Especially, you know, where I've grew up in the Southeast, where we got really good basketball programs, good football teams, and, you know, either especially in North Carolina, like, you grow up. [00:37:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:33] Speaker C: Blue Devils fan, you grow up a Carolina Tar Heel fan, or you're a Wolfpack fan for the most part, you know, it's up to you to kind of pick that path. And a lot of times then you're like, oh, wow, there's a lot of other options in the state we have. We're really fortunate here in North Carolina to have a ton of great colleges all over the country. Like, don't. Trust me. There's. There's a lot of great colleges out there. But yeah, being a fan of a school is one thing, but yeah, just don't tell your parents to put put away that other gear if you know, a college coach showing up. But. [00:38:04] Speaker B: So what's your biggest surprise recruit story that you were shocked with, with the player, and you're like, I gotta have this player now. [00:38:11] Speaker C: I think one thing, when you're recruiting, you expect to, like on the golf course, you expect to see good shots, you expect to see bad shots. I think ultimately you're there to see how the player reacts after bad shots. How. How are they reacting to the girls in their group, the guys in their group, how are they interacting with their parents? Is there a good relationship there? And, you know, nine times out of 10, I'm gonna recruit a kid because the vibe is good. And I think that's a lot of the kids we work with, they have really good personalities, and I think you don't see that behind an email. And I think that's why it's important for us to get the K there. Playing in the right events where the college coaches can see them like they see what, you know, they're going to bring to the table. Because in the college golf world, you're spending a lot of time away from campus, a lot of time in a van, a lot of time away, you know, from your dorm where it's comfortable and you're on the road a lot. And a college coach wants to recruit a kid that's going to fit into their family. And whether that's because they're the best golfer in the squad or because their personality is perfect and we know we can make them better golfer, you're going to see it all. [00:39:17] Speaker B: I wish I could remember the name of the young lady that Sophie played with at Pine Needles. And you'll remember who I'm talking about. [00:39:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:26] Speaker B: I've never been around a player as positive with the family. As positive. [00:39:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:32] Speaker B: As this young lady. [00:39:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:34] Speaker B: I think it was the second hole of the day. She took a 10 on a par five. Sophie tapped in for par. She goes up and gives Sophie a high five. And she still kept a smile on her face. She moved on, and she still went on. Shot like 81 or 80 that day. [00:39:47] Speaker C: Yep. [00:39:48] Speaker B: After taking in 10 out of her second hole today, that kid stood out for me. If I was recruiting, I'd want that kid on my roster. [00:39:56] Speaker C: Yeah. Moral. Moral support. And I think. And that's a testament to that young lady and her family, you know, the way that she goes about her business. And I think it's like I said about the Indiana State Championship, at the end of the day. Yeah. Your competitors and you want to beat each other, but golf is a game for life. And the people you meet on the golf course and the connections you're able to make in golf are so unique to any other sport you play. I. I can't think of any other sport where you have to spend five or six or. I mean, when you're playing 36 holes, 10, 11, 12 hours with somebody from who knows where, and. Yeah. And you walk away and you think, wow. I mean, yeah, like, we were competitors today, but I think I just walked away with a friend. And, you know, I look back so fondly on my college experience, and I met so many wonderful people and, you know, from literally all over the world and, like, from Australia to Sweden to here in the states. And I also was able to recruit kids from, you know, all over the world. And I think, you know, at the end of the day, your job as a college coach is to find the right puzzle piece to your puzzle, and whether that's someone with a really good attitude who, you know, you can help their golf game, or a really good golfer who might have a little bit of an attitude, but you know, they're going to make their golf game better. That's. That's each coaches, I think. [00:41:19] Speaker B: I think this is a great place to kind of tie everything up from our conversation today. I think what you said just there is 100% correct. [00:41:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:41:29] Speaker B: I think what we talked about earlier, like I said, we went over the roster limits knowing that most schools are going to go to nine or less and scholarships could go up. But that does not mean that these schools are going to give those additional scholarships. We can only cross our fingers that they do, but I don't know if they will or not. It just depends on the school's money and what they have out there. And I think when it comes to nil, I don't want any of you young listeners thinking that you're going to be able to pay for your car payment with what you could be making at NIL right now at the local. At the school you're looking at. [00:42:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:03] Speaker B: So those are the things I learned today. But also, Lauren, I know we have a good, strong relationship, and we've been able to speak several times over the last year, and I know we will several times over the next year. I know you and I have talked about having you come back. And the next conversation I want to do is with the Universal Golf rankings, because I know a lot of the players from the Instagram post, they see that they don't know what it is. I've got parents that are like, they like it, but they don't like it. Then you get the parent looking at the data, and we have a parent that we both know about that looked at it, and next thing you know, he's like, this is the best thing ever. And I'm like, no. He said, this is the best thing ever. [00:42:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:41] Speaker B: You have another parent going, well, my kid should be ranked higher. The data doesn't lie. The data information's right there. Yes. Does your kid deserve to be ranked higher? Every kid deserves to be ranked higher, and I think they will be. However, all the information, all that data that the Universal Golf Rankings gives back to a coach, I saw a text from a parent, and they asked A coach, which system are you going to be using? And her comment back to this particular parent was, jgs won't exist in a couple of years. [00:43:13] Speaker C: Yeah, I think to your point about rankings, that's definitely going to be another podcast we could probably try. There's. There's different systems out there. They do things. Each system does something well, and I think you can take something from each and incorporate it into what you're doing. But I think at the end of the day, golf is a unique sport that numbers don't lie and, you know, it's only numbers. Golf is a unique sport where you can't hide when things aren't going your way, you know, can't bench you because they can put on point, you know, put in another point guard, or I think, think the rankings. Ultimately, at the end of the day, they dictate that. And, yeah, and I think the most important part from this, you know, from our time tonight, but between the nil and the roster limits and stuff, the. The college coach, their ultimate goal is to put the best golfer out there, whether that's going to be a transfer student or a high school student or whatever it is, and it's going to be our job, especially a path for success, to educate and do the best we can to, you know, make these kids as, you know, college ready as possible and, you know, try. And I think that's. My parents always said, I'm trying to teach you lessons so you don't have to make the same mistakes that I did. Well, I, I get that now. Like, I'm. I'm in my mid-30s. I understand what they meant, and I. Those are the same lessons I'm trying to teach to the kids we're working with. You know, don't. Don't make the same mistakes I did in my recruiting process. Process. I've lived it, I've learned it, I've coached it to try to, you know, try these things instead. And. Yeah, but they're rankings talks. That. That's a whole different podcast, and I'm. I'm happy to talk about it. [00:44:58] Speaker B: I think that'd be a great next one. Lauren, I thank you for your time. Yeah, absolutely. I know it's. You're busy, and I know there's a lot going on. So, again, thank you for all your time, and I look forward to our next conversation. [00:45:07] Speaker C: No, I appreciate it. Thanks for having us on, and we'll talk soon. Da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da.