Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome.
[00:00:02] Speaker B: Cause you are now listening to from.
[00:00:05] Speaker A: The CART Pass with your host Trent Roberts, bringing you tips, support and player.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: Recognition and education with the experts for parents and junior golfers in Indiana.
[00:00:21] Speaker A: This is from the CART Path with your host, Trent Roberts.
[00:00:25] Speaker B: Foreign.
[00:00:29] Speaker C: We are continuing our IHSAA State championship week with our third podcast of the week. And I'm excited because we get to do a couple of things tonight. We have a guest with us, a great instructor out of Fort Wayne, Indiana at Brookwood Golf Club, Albert Jennings, a Ball state grad of 2016, which you get close to that 10 year reunion. Albert. And we have again with us Nate McClung. And we're going to have some conversations with Albert and then we're going to have a little preview of the course and then we're going to kind of go into and talking about teams and expectations and getting prepared and talking about some of the players we all want to see this weekend. So Albert, how does it feel to see the success of your girl so far during the state? You have, you have some sectional champs and then you have regional champs and you have a couple of regional runner ups. What's that as an instructor feel like?
[00:01:28] Speaker A: Well, I'm happy for the girls. You know, first and foremost, I try not to focus on winning. I think as a camp we try not to focus on winning, but doing the work, trying to show up the best we can on the day. I'm always curious as a coach, you know, how does our stuff come compare to other people's stuff? And you know, because at the end of the day this is a competitive thing and it, you know, to win a golf tournament you've got to beat everybody. And if I think that I'm any good, then when we go to a tournament, our stuff should stack up pretty good. And you know, when it doesn't, I learn something and look for some of those holes and what we could have done better. But you know, I would say that a lot of our girls did a really good job in prep getting ready for their, you know, regional events. And we never look past a regional, but we do always keep it in perspective in terms of, hey, state's going to get a little further, it's going to be a little different challenge. So in that lead up, you know, I'm kind of half thinking about the regional, but also half thinking about the turnaround for state, especially for, you know, those high level players that I think it could compete at the top of the leaderboard.
But it was awesome. It was a fun regional week.
We'll have seven girls that will play at state.
I believe that's a record for me.
But I'm super stoked. I had a couple players that, you know, had to make sure that they were in the lineup.
A freshman that was in and out of the lineup all year and was able to come up with her best stuff at regional. I'm very comfortable actually saying who that was. Brittany Irving just did an incredible job.
I got to see one of the biggest smiles on her face when she found out what she shot. And she got into a really great flow state where she wasn't really thinking about score and had, you know, really her best round of the year. Genuinely almost cried just seeing her face, you know, when I, hey, great job. And the smile comes across her face. And so to see. I've said this before, but, you know, one of the reasons that I do what I do is because I like seeing young people achieve something that they maybe didn't know was possible for them just yet. And so when I get to witness those moments, that's really special for me. So of all the, you know, wins and, you know, some people breaking par and that sort of thing, you know, one of my favorite rounds of regional was, was Brittany Irving's mid-80s score. That was her best of the year. She's a freshman and growing and doing awesome. So, yeah, long way of saying I'm really excited about the seven who are there and really excited about what we did at the regional, you know, as a group, and again, curious to see how it stacks up with everybody else's stuff. All the great instructors and players, you know, across the state, you know, that's what we're trying to be in that category. And so weeks like this, where we all get to kind of come together and see what happens on these two days, which is largely random, you know, somebody's going to have a good weekend and win.
It's going to be within a group of people that have worked really hard. But who that individual person is, who can know? So, you know, I love my girls. Super proud of what they've done leading up to now. And so anything else is just Grady.
[00:04:43] Speaker C: So, you know, one of the reasons, when we made a move to you, Albert and I know we had several conversations. And so everyone knows in the audience, Albert is Sophie's instructor. And I want to make sure people understand that. And one of the reasons why we made the move to Albert was kind of the conversation we're getting to go to next is Albert studies.
He gets to know not just his students. But he reads a lot of parental books. Parental books is what he has told me to understand how to work with the players.
Every kid's different, if that's the best way of putting it, and knowing how to work with each student that he has because of that skill he has built.
I kind of leads into my question of parents for this weekend. If you're kind of a parent to these seven girls that you're going to have playing this weekend, what's it mean for parents? And kind of take me through your thought process there.
[00:05:43] Speaker A: So, you know, when I first got out of college and was coaching, admittedly, I didn't have as much empathy for parents as I do now.
I'm not a parent, but I almost exclusively am talking to parents.
And, you know, I appreciate so much just your jobs and the fact that you, you know, you create this person.
It's your job to keep them safe, and it's your job to set them up for, you know, a nice life where they can have some autonomy and they can accomplish things and feel good about themselves. And then, you know, one day they start to kind of talk back and not listen to you and, you know, want to hang out with other people.
[00:06:32] Speaker C: And that's at three years old, Albert.
[00:06:34] Speaker A: Right.
And so I understand how hard it is for parents, and emotionally, you're very, very involved, and it's very difficult to not be. But when it comes to these big weekends and these big moments, we're asking the kids to step up and maybe be a little bit bigger than themselves or be a little bit better than what they've been in the past. And I think that the same should be expected from coaches and parents. I think we should hold ourselves to the same standard. And so to be kind of specific about that, right? So if I give a lesson to a player on Monday and they have a tournament, you know, Friday, Saturday, if they leave the lesson, just striping it, hitting it, great, there's gonna be a few things that could get in the way between them showing up. Their best one is gonna be the last 36 hours. So if we're talking State pretty much right now, how did we sleep two nights before? How did we sleep the night of?
How did we eat? How did we drink?
What did we do for practice?
That second thing I'm curious about is that last hour, hour and a half. What did I do on the range? How did I get myself kind of locked in?
What did I think about? What did I listen to? What did I imagine?
And then that last piece is before every single shot, that last minute, what do I do in the last minute to cue myself in to. To be my best?
I think parents often skip over some of that prep, mentally, emotionally sort of thing. I've told a few players this week when I was in high school, you know, tournament week.
I'm wanting to do things that make me happy. I want to eat things that make me happy. I'm gonna watch TV shows and movies that make me happy. I'm gonna do things that lower my levels and make it easier for me to regulate myself. I wasn't thinking that way when I was a kid, but, like, effectively that's what I, you know, I was doing.
And so for parents, I would really, really recommend and states coming up. But in the future, that week before, those days before, really think about how you want to show up and what things you can do for yourself. I mean, legitimately, go get a massage. Legitimately, go do something fun for you. Because if you're like, how on your kid and you're stressed and you're up here all week, that's gonna feed into them. And then when you get out on the course, the actual day of, it's gonna be really hard for you to regulate.
Same thing for that last hour before, you know, are you talking to other parents and talking about outcomes or ruminating in your own head about what's gonna happen? That's not gonna help you show up your best. And ultimately, I think that the most important thing a parent can do, just like a player, is control those 60 seconds before and those 30 seconds after.
Kids, even kids that are really autonomous, really do it for themselves.
They don't feel like they get pressure from their parents. Even those kids, it's natural to look over at your parent and see what they thought.
If you're having these reactions, body language, if they can hear you, even if you didn't say anything negative, if they hear your voice and dad, your voices carry more than what you think.
It's going to take them away from what they should be thinking about.
That's them for you. It's just going to raise your stress levels all day.
There's. You guys probably know this.
Some of the younger people listening to might not.
There's that playoff game where Reggie Miller against the Bulls hits the three last second. There's maybe less than a second left, but enough to take a shot. Reggie Miller's jumping up and down.
Everybody's elated. The camera cuts to Larry Bird, and he looks like he's sitting in traffic.
He's Kind of chewing his gum and he's just looking straight ahead. He was asked about it after. He said, well, Michael Jordan's on the other team, so we've gotta, you know, and I think with golf, I think it's similar where any individual thing that happens, just take 10 seconds before a reaction, because once that reaction starts again, just like I tell my players, once that reaction starts, your heart rate's up, some chemicals start going in your body that are not used to regulate. They're used to, you know, run away from a bear.
Let's see if we can calm those down by taking, you know, that last minute before to pre accept. Hey, she might miss this.
Hey, this is a tough hole. If we come away with part here, that'd be awesome. If it's a bogey, no big deal. Say that to yourself beforehand because then you'll be able to show up in a little bit more regulated way when it doesn't go your way.
[00:11:19] Speaker C: And that takes time. And Nate, you. I don't know if you saw me that much. This past weekend, HSC was paired with Yorktown Albert, and his number two got to play with with Sophie. And there was a couple times on the course that day where kind of what you're talking about one side of it which was not good, and one side of it which was what you just said about accept the bogey if it's going to happen and move on.
Nate, hole 14, the maintenance shed at Edgewood.
And when I saw Sophie put her iron back in her bag and pull out her five wood, I start pacing back and forth over back in the rough. I'm like, we are too under par with. What are we doing? What's happening here? I'm walking back and forth and one of the girls on her team goes.
She hit that in the practice round the other day and put it five feet in front of the green. Gut up and down for birdie. Why are you stressed?
And I'm like, she was right.
Number one. She was right. She knew what she was doing. She was in the moment. It was her decision and not mine. And I'm just a stressed out parent because I want what's best for them. But I needed at that moment to hear that, to be able to set myself back and relax.
And then we got to hole 16.
She had a shot that went left and it was going to be a tough chip.
And I went in and said, you know what? She's three under.
We've got 17 and 18 coming up that she can birdie. Bogey's going to be fine here.
Whatever happens, happens. And she had a great chip. I think she talked to you about this, Albert. She had an amazing chip. I didn't even know how she hit it. And Mr. Putt got her bogey, but nobody was bothered because I think she knew and we knew that she could birdie the next two holes, which is what was accomplished. And I think what you said earlier about parents being able to accept and move on and not be stressed about it, you gotta be able to tell yourself it's okay. There's. Over the next two days at State, I'd said this to the freshman girls. There's gonna be 150 shots for some of you or less, some of you a little bit more. And Albert, you know that group I talked to? I'm exactly right about that number. And there's going to be a percentage of shots that aren't great, but it's the recovery, and all of them can do it. It's just. You don't need to worry about it because we're not going to hit every shot perfect. It's. It's that next one. And I think it's the same thing as a parent. It's accepting. And I think you were dead right on that. Nate, you have any thoughts on that as a coach?
[00:13:48] Speaker B: Yeah, a little bit, Actually, I was taking some notes. First of all, I'm just humbled to be talking golf with Albert. I've heard Albert talk golf, and I have a question I want to ask later when we talk about the golf course. But this discussion, I think, is perfect, because as a coach, I'm trying to keep the parents on the cart path, ironically. But we do talk a lot to our parents because they feel like they have no control. And often there's this conversation where it's so stressful being a golf parent because you have no control. But I think what Albert just got into about those 60 seconds prior and 30 seconds after. That's why every time I'm around Albert, I learn something. So I think this discussion is just absolutely perfect because we have a coach, a swing coach, and a parent who's getting ready to go through that exact thing this weekend.
So I think that's just tremendous stuff there. Albert, I would just add that, that you're not a parent, but I have seen you out on these golf courses walking with.
With the parents of all these girls. And just props to you, because you go beyond the expectations of swing coaches. You're out, you're walking the golf course, and I think it's tremendous what you said about the young lady you coached. Like, you get emotional when they have success, and that's the same thing we do as parents, man. So just keep doing what you're doing. I'm excited to see you this weekend, but I think. I think what you said about the 60 seconds before and the 30 seconds after for parents, I'd never really heard it said that way. You know, we talk to our athletes about that, but I think that's such just wonderful advice for what the 108 groups of parents that are going to be on the golf course this weekend. Because Prairie View, to use your words, is a different challenge. And the parents are going to need everything they can to try to regulate that stress and try to combat, as you said, getting all up in your feelings or however that was worded just a moment ago. Trent, I'm enjoying listening to this conversation.
[00:15:34] Speaker C: Well, and I think one of the things, too, is there's so many different styles and types of courses that these young ladies play at sectionals than at regionals, where we know some of these sectional courses are not difficult.
So expectations are then set by a parent on how they perform at one of those events, whether it's sectionals or regionals sometimes. And I don't want to go into naming courses or players or anything because I don't think that's fair. But there are courses that are a little bit easier at sectionals and some regional courses that are harder than others.
And I think sometimes then expectations are set, Nate. And you've seen this probably with players and parents, they go to that next tournament where the light switch comes on even a little bit more because some kids haven't played as many events as others.
So regionals is a big step up for a lot of players. That light switch is a little bit bigger. But parents somehow set this expectation, from what I've seen, that, well, if my daughter shot this at sectionals, why isn't she shooting this at regionals? And I think that's the first mistake as parents that we can make is there's no expectations. And I think my expectations that I have set forth, and it took me a long time to get here, and I think sometimes the wisdoms I get from Albert and some of our great conversations that we've had over the last six months is for me, my job is to be a dad.
My job is to be supportive, smile, not give her that negative energy that I probably did a year ago or two years ago when there was a bad shot or something. So I Think there's no expectations for me. My expectations are what Sal talked about in our podcast, Nate, the enjoy part. I want to make sure my kids enjoying herself out there. That's more important to me than anything else. Because if she doesn't enjoy herself out there and as a parent, what are we doing?
And that's kind of where I've gotten lately. So if she goes out there and doesn't shoot what she expects, I'm still gonna love her. I just hope she enjoys herself, because that's more important to me. And that's one of the things I've learned recently, Nate. And I think that's kind of where Albert's getting at with me on some things, is enjoy it, enjoy the moment, because I've got less than two years at this point before she's off to school.
[00:17:55] Speaker B: Trent, I think you and I think had this conversation, maybe even in person. But in what other sport?
Albert gave the Reggie Miller example. In what other sport do we tee it up? And we anticipate every time we play we're setting a new career high. That's not the way that other sports work. So I think we do have, and I think largely parents are wonderful. But I think when you have some success, especially at the regional level, whatever that number may be, maybe it's Albert's player who just shot 85. Now all of a sudden you think, oh, my gosh, I'm going to shoot 80. And that's just not the way that golf works. I think for me, it's how do we get you into a tighter range of scores? So say your ceiling is 82. Like, I want you to shoot a more consistent score. It's just not realistic that every time you play, you're going to shoot a career low. So I think it's a. It's a different skill set to be able to play with expectations. And I think Albert certainly coaches some good players. Could talk more to that.
But just regarding parent expectations, I think that's another thing we need to keep in mind for the discussion as well.
[00:18:57] Speaker A: And to add on to really what you both said in terms of the course.
And you know, Nate, it's a great example, you know, with basketball and setting a career high every time you go out, I think that a lot of parents and players need to understand something about these courses.
If it were basketball, the difference between most sectional and regional courses and the state course would be okay, my daughter's shooting 40% from 3, and the average person guarding her is 5, 8 at the state finals. That person I want to play in front of, you're going to be shooting over someone who's 6, 3.
And also the rim is now 12ft.
And that sounds extreme for basketball. That is as extreme as it is in golf. When we go from 5,000 yards to 5,800 yards, a major thing happens for these girls.
There are girls that can hit it 240 yards, but only carry it at about 200.
And at that 200 number, that tee shot on one is going to look a little scarier because it's about 190 to cover.
And if my ball is coming in kind of flat because it's used to kind of running out now, that's a much more difficult shot. There's a few other places on the course where if you can't carry it up over 200, it may be a little bit more of a difficult shot.
Additionally, even on the fairways that are, you know, nice and wide, you can hit your shot there. You're going to be hitting an 8 iron instead of a pitching wedge. That dispersion gets bigger. Whether you're Rory or the five player from such and such school, the longer the club, the bigger that dispersion gets.
So when you watch your kids and you're comparing to scores that they've been shooting, you have to understand that the hoop is higher this weekend.
The pressure is bigger. That's where, you know, kind of the defender comes in the. But just by the numbers, they're going to shoot higher.
Most of the players in the field now, there's a handful of players probably around 10% of the field that hit really hard and really high.
They're going to be in heaven in terms of the course setup. But even for them, they're going to be switching from hitting a bunch of wedges and chip shots into these holes to now hitting middle at longer irons. Those chips now, when you do miss the green, just are a little further away.
So that little bump and run now is a little delicate pitch that I got to land on the fringe. These shots are difficult, and you haven't been getting as many reps.
And so that is something that has to adjust our expectations for us. And I think that golf parents especially can learn from other sports. And maybe you've been this way in other sports.
Parents are very.
They'll readily say, oh, yeah, they played soccer, but they just, they weren't fast enough.
They were playing basketball, but they're too short.
But then expect them to just overcome all these physical obstacles in golf like it's Hard, too short. It's really, really difficult.
So I would just say that, you know, understand and appreciate the challenge. You know, sometimes, especially when my players are on really difficult courses, one of the first things that I'll say to them is, tough out there, wasn't it?
And that will lead then to say, well, yeah, but I could have done this, this, this, this, this. If I or a parent comes to them right after and like, you should have done this, this, this, this, this, then they're going to go the other way to where, like, well, you don't get it. You. Blah, blah, blah. Maybe they're saying that, maybe they're thinking it. But if we can acknowledge for them, like, what the difficulty is and then let them critique what they want to critique, that's a healthier place to start from. But it starts with our recognition of the challenge.
[00:22:53] Speaker C: I just want to point out, you can tell we're all from Indiana when we're using basketball as our analogies, because the whole time you're sitting there talking about Albert. I. I used this one the other day of the scene in Hoosiers where Hickory walks into Hinkle Field House and they're measuring the goal and they're going down and you're looking around and you're looking at the stadium around you. I always tell them, like, you're over at. You're either over Edgewood or you're over at.
[00:23:20] Speaker A: Right?
[00:23:21] Speaker C: And then you, you go shoot. You go play Edgewood. And it's, it's. It's Hickory's gym. It's small, right? It's all together. You're wearing hard hats when you get, when people are hitting shots because you don't want to get hit in the head. Right, Nate? And then, so.
And then you pull up to Prairie View and here's this huge stadium, and it's just different. And it automatically smacks you right when you see it of, we're not in a small town course anymore. And I think that's what you're saying earlier, Albert, is the challenge in setting expectations as a parent knowing, hey, be proud, number one, they made it here, they got to state. That's.
That's awesome to begin with for a lot of these players across the state. I look at Bar Reeve down in Southern Indiana, I think this is the first time the school has ever made it to the state championship.
[00:24:15] Speaker B: That's correct.
[00:24:15] Speaker C: And then you have Ali Lewis from. I forget what school she's from that got out of Lafayette Regional. It's the first time anyone from her high school has made to the state championship. I look at those moments as those are some of the cool moments that we don't sit here and think about because we're used to Northridge making it to state all the time lately.
We know Taylor Larkins is going to be at state. We know HSC is going to be there. We know Zionsville is going to be back there. Heck, Zionsville. Noble Zolka said two teams to state if they wanted to. We know those things are going to take place. But take pride in what we're seeing as well. As parents of look at all these awesome kids that are here with your child.
Enjoy that because this is an awesome moment.
[00:24:58] Speaker B: Ali Lewis, Western Boon.
[00:25:00] Speaker C: Yeah, there you go.
One of those Western schools. So that's kind of my thought there. Any more last words of wisdom for parents, Albert, before we start talking about the course?
[00:25:14] Speaker A: You know, I just to kind of recap and reiterate and partially what you said, the enjoyment part.
And, you know, we don't. It's cliche. We just don't get time back.
And, you know, I go back and look at old pictures and, you know, I've been going to the state finals since maybe 20, 2018 with, with girls. And it's, it's a really special time for them. And it's, it's a time that they're going to remember. They're going to remember it one way or the other.
So the golf part we cannot control, but how we show up for them as the adults in their life that we can control. And we talk to kids all the time again about the mental side of controlling the controllables.
Are we doing that as parents and coaches, especially as it relates to making it as good and enjoyable of an experience as it can. And sometimes if they have a bad day, there's nothing you can do or say other than just be there. But they remember that, too. And if, if it's silence for a few hours and a nice text at the end of the day, maybe that's all that it is. But I think if every adult shows up this weekend and says, how can I help?
And if you can't help, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all, right?
But I think for most of us, it's well within our power to be a positive force and support these kids because what they're doing is really, really hard. And it's for some of them, the biggest thing in their life. You know, I say to parents a lot, like, how do you feel when you have to give a big presentation or you have to. Yeah, this is how they're feeling, and they don't have all the life experience and skills to deal with it that. That we have. So, you know, I think my guiding light often is just to treat these kids with respect and treat them like, you know, adults in the way that I would want to be treated and respect what they're going through. And I think if you start from there versus, like a competitive place, like, you're going to be in a good spot.
[00:27:27] Speaker C: 100% agree. I was just sitting here thinking about a parent that I want to be this weekend and Presley Whitestad. Ryan. Ryan White.
Ryan will walk around the golf course, and he's the happiest man on the golf course because his daughter's playing golf and he gets to watch.
And I remember there was a tournament, she was struggling. He goes, you know, she's struggling, but you know how awesome it is that we're here. I really like watching your daughter play. This is awesome, isn't it? Aren't you so excited for them? And I'm sitting there like, that's how we need to be.
My kid's struggling. They never play like this.
That only feeds into the energy that you're giving off. And I think that's where I want to be more like Ryan White Presley's dad from Noblesville this weekend.
So with all that being said, I know both of you have been looking at the course, looking at some of the stats. Why don't we get talking a little bit about Prairie View and Albert, kind of give us your.
Your thoughts on, you know, the course and some of the holes you're going to be looking forward to coach your kids on.
[00:28:31] Speaker A: Yeah, Nate, I know you said you had a question on the course.
I'd love to hear, kind of like, as a coach, how, you know, you think about and as you imagine, you know, some of your players and players that you've, you know, coached going through that course, kind of what. What stands out to you as. As a high school coach.
[00:28:47] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. So I, I kind of looked at the data, but I mean, I think just in general, you hit it on the head earlier when you were. Well, one of the analogies we were using about basketball, where you're raising the hoop of the rim, because I think a couple things you mentioned hitting the ball higher due to the forced carries. Obviously, you're also putting in the pressure of the golf course. But even just looking at the hole by holes from the fall preview, I mean, it seems like, the hardest holes on the golf course that day at least were 2, 11, 16, and 18.
So, I mean, those are. They're demanding holes. But I guess my question just was for you. I've heard you talk about speed, and you talked about speed earlier, but just in talking to coaches that I think are a lot smarter than I am. Speed at Prairie View is not just how far you can move the T ball out there, but also other shots that you're going to have on that golf course, specifically speaking. So I was just going to ask if I could. Again, I like learning from you, Albert. Just the golf course specifically, how does speed impact more than just driving distance there? And why is it so important at Prairie View?
[00:29:52] Speaker A: Yeah, so sometimes there's a misconception about speed and working on speed that you're just trying to, like, hit it as far as you can. There's a lot of research that says that is good, especially at a certain age. That's what kids should be trying to do, you know, at this stage. Maybe besides freshmen, you know, you know, players aren't working on just, like, trying to hit it as far as they can right now, this time of year, but the speed that they've developed and have accumulated, it's going to be used in a few different ways. One, obviously hitting the driver really far. But two, on some of the holes where you're a little bit more uncomfortable, you can go back to a three wood or a seven wood or a hybrid and still push it down the course pretty well. And then three, on holes like let's take hole five, for example, it's a really shallow green.
If I'm coming in with an eight iron versus a pitching wedge, or even if two people that, you know, have different speeds, they both say, hey, my eight iron goes 140.
Well, for the slower player, it might land at 130 and roll to 140, especially with how dry it's been most of the season, where the player that hits it harder and higher, their ball has been carrying 140 and maybe only rolling out slightly different amounts all year because of the height that they're bringing the ball down on.
So that player with more speed has a more reliable distance that they can count on because they don't have to wonder about roll and changing conditions.
So those would be at Prairie View, and really, at any course, one, I'm chasing the ball down the hole. Two, I don't always have to hit driver, and I can still play aggressive. And three, my landing angle with all clubs, including wedges, is going to be coming down steeper. One way to think about it, if you were trying to stop a ball on a green and that ball was moving, let's say 50 miles an hour, it would be easier to stop that ball in the green by dropping it straight above versus trying to throw it 50 miles an hour and have it stop perfectly on the green, have it finish on the green. So the players with more speed just have. They have better visuals and they have more available to them in terms of the shots they can play.
[00:31:59] Speaker C: Keep going. Nate, I know you have some questions because I, I even look at that course, he's. He's dead right on number five. That green is. Oh, yeah.
Shallow.
[00:32:08] Speaker B: Yeah. I think, Albert, you asked about, from a coach's perspective, I think that the golf course, a lot of golf courses you play, you're going to have some holes where you can kind of put it out there, at least to the fat side of the golf course and say, all right, like, I can breathe a little bit here. Again, I just was looking at the hole by holes because at Yorktown, we don't have five players the caliber of Zionsville, Carmel, Noblesville, hse and Franklin, the top five teams from the preview. But I'm just looking at this, like, even to avoid playing back to back poor holes as a team is challenging, right? So, like even looking at Zions will scorecard that they win the event, but like, they played 1 and 2 plus 3 and plus 4 relative to some of the other holes on the golf course, like, those are some of the easier holes. So I'm just over the course of five and a half and six hours. I think that's the challenging part as a coach is it's like, shoot, I just made a double on a par three and now I got to get up there and hit it down a tight fairway on a hole. It's a par 5 where I would really like to score back there on seven. Like, you just really don't have a minute where you can breathe. And I think, thank goodness we have a two coaching rule now. But just trying to think back when I was the only one coaching. Like, you just can't be everywhere at the same time. And I'm going to have two or three of them in tears because it's just, it's so darn challenging out there and it's so different than anything we've seen all year. I don't know if there's necessarily a question there, but I think from a coaching standpoint, that is really challenging at Prairie View?
[00:33:38] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And look, you know, I've been in that situation with players, whether it's, you know, at a big event or, you know, being with a player that first time they're making a step up in level of the event they're playing.
And sometimes it is just a really, really big challenge. And the job of the coach, the parent, the adult is to help them understand what to expect and help them understand that, like how to gauge the results of what's going on and not beat themselves up over a five. Because a five here is different than a five at home on that 280 yard or four. So I think, you know, as a coach, if I had a team that was still growing and 57,5800 yards was still a lot, and Prairie View is going to be a lot, you know, I would set a really specific goal, probably with some incentives, and it'd be like, hey, look, based on what we've been shooting, this is kind of what we would do here. Here's my goal for you guys. It's not to go beat everybody. It's not to go shoot your best score of the year because it's state. It's this goal that I've created based on what the challenge is. And even if that's like, hey, if you can get three pars in a row, this is what, you know you can have, or this is the award you'll get or whatever it is. But trying to make smaller bite sized challenges out of this, like, big challenge just to help distract them from like, hey, yeah, this is like, you know, I'm climbing Mount Everest here, right?
[00:35:11] Speaker C: You know, you were talking earlier, Nate, about some of the holes. I just pulled up last year's results on some of the more difficult holes. And personally, I'm one of those. That 13 brings a challenge to players just because when they get up there, it's the visual. And if you haven't played that hole enough, the visual of that hole will kind of mess with you in the mind of how do I play this hole?
So, Albert, kind of take us through. If you were coaching a player how you would want to walk them through that hole.
[00:35:41] Speaker A: Yeah. So if it's okay, I'll bring up a few other holes, please. I've got, I've got some, some data and then we'll kind of get into a few specific holes.
So last year the field averaged about 17 over.
Okay.
Seven of those 17 came from the hardest six holes.
Those six holes last year were 9, 13, 10, 11, 16 and 7. That's in order.
Okay. So the field on those six holes, they lost 7.16 shots to the course, so 7.16 over par.
The top five players in the event, they played those same six difficult holes, 0.8 over par.
So on the hardest six holes, the best five players are gaining about seven shots on the field. As we go down to the remaining 12 holes, they're still gaining there, too, obviously, because there's 10 more strokes to go, but they're gaining a majority of it on the hard holes. Right. That's not a super complicated thing to say.
Good athletes do hard things.
But when we look at previous years. So I went back 20, 23, 2022, 2021. There's four holes that consistently pop up as the hardest because, you know, you'll get a little different, you know, vibe at the preview. You'll get a little different vibe year to year on certain holes. You know, there are a lot of holes that would sometimes show up as the fifth or sixth or seventh or fourth, sometimes randomly. But these four were the ones that consistently have played tough the last four or five years.
That is 13.
That was the par five that consistently stayed in par. Fives for pros are easy, for juniors are not for a couple reasons. One, there's more time for something to go wrong. Two, and this is specific to lower club speeds, they don't like hitting the three wood or the five wood or the whatever. And so then they're just more likely to hit a bad shot.
So. But sometimes like seven pops up. Like last year is one of the six toughest.
Eighteen sometimes sneaks in as one of the harder holes just because of it being, you know, a bigger hole. But the 4, 9, 13, 10, and 11.
[00:38:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:12] Speaker A: So if you start on 10, you get a few of those right away. If you start on one, you know, you're able to get off to maybe a little smoother start on average.
But, you know, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 are coming.
So I think the way that they fall in the course make them difficult because, like, Nate's saying, like, you don't really have a whole lot of time to, like, rest. Like, there's just going to be a different visual, different thing that you have to kind of combat.
So really quickly. If I just said, what gets people on 9, 10, 11, and 13. Nine people know on the tee. They know on the tee. It's a tough hole. I see a lot of people play too safe off the tee.
[00:38:54] Speaker C: Mm.
[00:38:55] Speaker A: Because they don't want to risk anything early. My philosophy is There's X amount of risk on every hole. You choose where you want to take it.
And I would rather bite off a little bit at the beginning and then take on the rest of it versus kind of split it up. Because sometimes trying to split it up, you actually wind up having a way more difficult second shot.
[00:39:16] Speaker B: Right.
[00:39:17] Speaker C: Real quick, Albert, why?
I guess my question on number nine is for the mind. What's going on in the mind of the player?
Because reality is, how many players can actually drive it to the water off the tee? Percentage wise, do you believe?
[00:39:34] Speaker A: If it's soft, it's probably in that 10% range again, if it's firm, there's maybe some others, but in the wind will not be helping. So, yeah, I think for the most part, most people could chase it down there a little further. The car path is a little bit unfortunate because I have seen a ball, you know, hit the path and go. But, you know, ideally you're getting something just short of the path and you're under 140 yards. I never like seeing a player pull out, you know, more than seven iron on that hole.
So it's typically. I didn't bite off a big enough chunk off the tee.
And then that shot's just hard. You usually have a little wind blowing away from the water towards the bunker and where people are standing. And I say to some of my kids, like, you just gotta put on your big kid pants and hit a shot. Like, some holes are just hard. And if you don't hit a good shot, I want it to be because, you know, you committed and it just didn't work out versus, like making a scary swing and then you're in that bunker or by the tent. So, Yeah, I think 9 is. It's like, it's just visually intimidating and it causes people to make shots or make swings that, you know, they don't usually make. 10 visually is not that bad. But you have to hit two middle or long irons. You have to hit a long iron and then a mid iron. The way that that shoot kind of narrows up, I would say, like, maybe a little bit unfair. Like, I think that angle wise, you shouldn't have that tiny of a shoot when you have to lay up. But everybody's going to play it. So, you know, you've got to kind of find a way to get on that green. And it's not, you know, it's what I call a Mickey Mouse green. You kind of have the head and then two ears. There's a couple of those whole sixes that way, but, you know, trying to get right. So to get it in the middle of the fairway to have a clear shot and then hit the middle of the green with a seven iron. I mean, it's just. You've got to stand on that Tino, and I've got it right now. Hit either a good hybrid and a good long iron or good long iron and good mid iron, depending on your distance control.
And then if I miss by a little bit, do I have a bunker shot that can get up quickly and down quickly and maybe get up and down?
So that's where 10, I think, you know, it's just. There's enough hazards and the angles are weird enough, and it's same with 11. You get a really narrow green, so you've got a pretty wide tee shot ultimately, but you could have 80 yards. You could have 150 yards just based on if you push or pull your tee shot. I think most girls are trying to get right in the middle of that range and the fat part of the fairway on 11.
But let's say you do pull it a little bit. Now you've got a mid iron, and that green is an alley. It's. It's tiny. So. So again, if you miss with a mid iron, which is really easy to do, especially 7 yards right or 7 yards left, now you've got this really delicate chip. So at State, we start to see more of the creative short games and the people that have any shot off of any lie we see that really show up because it's like, whoa, this is a tough chip. And then they, you know, they get it in there close and. And make a putt. You know, I think 11, it's largely due to how narrow that green is and then how difficult it is to get up and down if you do miss. Not impossible, but there has to be some intentionality on where's the pin? Where am I trying to leave it? Am I picking a club that can go long? Am I picking a shot that sometimes misses left? And now I've got a weird one kind of in that long stuff. So it just takes, you know, just like a major or a Ryder Cup. It takes more thought than what you usually put in, and not everybody's ready for that. And even people that are trying, maybe they haven't gotten enough reps of doing it over the last few months, just because, again, this challenge is way more in your face than some of the courses that they play, you know, in the lead up. And then last on 13, again, I think it's a shape thing because the top five players, they did average par there last year over the two rounds on seven, they averaged under par.
So 13 is a difficult par five, even for, you know, the best players in the field.
But that second shot is what I see. People mess up the most.
And, you know, whether it's the second shot or the shot you're hitting from near the car path to try to get it up there, you know, left in the fairway to hit it onto the green, there are some tricks and things that, you know, I've recommended to my players, especially the ones that, you know, don't play there super often. But, you know, I think for the coaches, for the players, as you're thinking about that hole, it's really that layup that, you know, you have to be really, really tight on. And again, if you've gone all year not hitting many difficult long clubs where it's like, hey, this is consequential. It's just hard. And again, that. That would be a part of pre acceptance, and I think a part of that pre acceptance of, like, what might happen because of the challenge. It's kind of. It's kind of a post mortem where now you get to say, you know, I would make a note. Let's say, hey, all right, next year we need to include more of this in the months before, because there's nothing I can do now. One of the ways that I view to kind of get back to the. I don't want to harp on the parent thing, you know, too much, but one of the ways that I keep myself regulated is like, if you're feeling upset right now or you're feeling like you, you need to do something, you need to help.
It's probably something you should have done months ago, and now you just need to sit with it. Because if you're worried that they don't have this shot, there's nothing you can do about it right now.
[00:45:03] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:45:03] Speaker A: So make a note, be better next time. But now is not the time to, like, you know, run up on him. You're like, okay, you got to do this. This, this, this, this, this, this is like, it's too late. And, and me bringing that kind of energy is not going to help. So I have to be better before the moment. Again, just like I tell a player, like, hey, like, if you're not ready before the moment to hit the shot, if you haven't hit the shot loads of times, not under pressure, then now is not the time where you should expect yourself to do It.
[00:45:31] Speaker C: And one of the things I've realized over the years, watching players play 13 as an example, is if you put your tee shot on one of the further bunkers on the left, change that mindset. It's okay to get a bogey.
And if you can change that mindset real quick, you get out of those bunkers, lay up, and now you have a chance at a par, if worst case, you're bogey. And I think that's where I've seen the upperclassmen grow up quick, is learning those holes and understanding what you just made the comment on earlier. Those are 9, 10, 11, and 13 for the hardest holes in the course. That's a tough stretch for anybody. And understanding if you bogey a couple of those, it's okay because now we have birdie holes to finish.
[00:46:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:46:22] Speaker C: And that's where the mindset needs to go. And I'm glad you brought those holes up because 100% agree with you, and I'll let you get to the front nine. Now, we said number four was the other one.
[00:46:32] Speaker A: For the.
[00:46:34] Speaker C: On the front. Was it on the front nine? Which hole was it? Nine. And what was the other hole?
[00:46:39] Speaker A: Seven. Okay, seven.
[00:46:41] Speaker C: So.
[00:46:41] Speaker A: And I think that happens to be part strategy and then part again, a really narrow green.
So most of the time, you know, on a basic par five, the data says, you know, hit two shots down there as far as you can.
[00:46:59] Speaker C: Not on that hole.
[00:47:01] Speaker A: Not on that hole. That's, you know, you've got hazards in certain places, including the bunkers, and then you have a green that is especially shallow.
So if you're not careful with where you lay up based on where the pin is, you've got a pretty difficult shot. And so, you know, on that hole, we're looking to hit a good drive. You know, the one state winner that I have on the guy side, Cash, he eagled that hole the second day.
He was incredible iron player. Had a lot of trust in him. He had a lot of trust in himself as a, you know, long iron player. So the plan was to just hit it up in that bunker in two shots and then get up and down from there. Quick, funny story, the news had come out to follow, and he had had a pretty big lead at that time. And I'm standing there talking to the news anchor. He's got the camera set up behind hole seven, and Cash hits his shot, and it goes right in that bunker, which is pretty much what we planned. If it was going to go on the green, it would be an accident. And the news Anchor says, well, yep, that's why I still come. You never know what's going to happen. You get in a bunker and, you know, he wasn't really a golfer. He didn't understand that a good golfer likes being in the bunker. Cash winds up making it and the guy, you know, he go. It's the craziest shot he's ever seen in person as he holds out from the bunker. And, you know, Cash went on to have a pretty convincing, you know, win there. But, you know, if, if you are a player that thinks that, you know, you have a chance to, to win this event with two days of play and a lot of really good players, you have to go take it at times. And there are times to be patient, and then there are times where the aggressive play is available to you and you have to make that choice.
And for young players that want to play in college and want to be good, I'm okay with that. Even if they kind of overestimate what they think they can do. Because pushing and testing those limits for teenagers is like a really critical part of growing up. So as much as sometimes I pull my hair out about some of the plays that I see players make, and I know parents do too, I do enjoy seeing them kind of explore, you know, what they could do. Because the players, you know, the 18 year olds, the college players that are super confident, I guarantee if you ask them, there have been some times where they did something risky that maybe their parent didn't think they should have done and they pulled it off. And that's a big part of like, yeah, I'm sure you've been there. That's a big part of how they, you know, build their identity as a, as a player and what they can and can't do. So, you know, seven is a whole where you just kind of have to step up and hit a shot at times, you know, no matter how difficult it was looks to you. And if that means going for it to where you think, like, hey, I can either get it in that bunker and if it leaks, it'll be on the green, like, do it. Let's say you, you go out a little bit, you drop, you chip on, maybe you make a five anyway. Yeah.
So, yeah, I think on the front, I, I, I think there's a lot of placement that has to happen. I think the first two holes, Nate, to your point, like you said that, you know, 1 and 2 maybe showed up a couple times as, you know, not great holes. I think a lot of that can be jitters.
And some of that adrenaline, you know, coming off that first tee.
But then once you get to three, you've got to make a decision where you want to put that second shot. On five, you have to make a decision where you want to put it. On seven, you have to make a decision where, when you get to the back, it's kind of like, I got to hit some shots.
There's not like 10, there's one place to put it.
Eleven, there's kind of a general area to put it. And then you just got to get it on the green, really starting on hole nine, like you get, you have to just start hitting shots.
[00:50:29] Speaker C: It's a placement course. You're hitting the nail on the head right now. It's completely a placement course across the whole. The whole place.
And what's funny is, you said par fives tend to be like for PGA players and lpg, even the best holes. For some reason, though, at Prairie View, their toughest holes are their par fives, and I think it's their setup.
[00:50:50] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, you got hazards and really well placed spots.
And, you know, if, if. If I'm playing in this event, I'm spending a lot of time with my three wood with my longer clubs on the range to make sure that I'm. I'm ready for those shots because the margins are really small. Some of the worst full swing shots that you see pros hit are with woods or with the metals.
Not with driver, but with, you know, wood or long iron, you know, can get away from you. So. But yeah, like I said, if. If you haven't hit it a lot all year, don't try to, you know, make it a big part of your game. Now you figure out another way. But if you know you can hit a good three wood, it just makes you a little uncomfortable.
Just kind of understand that you're going to have to do it or you have to adjust your expectations about what's possible on that course. Right. When we. When we talk about other sports, it's like, hey, you know, we're really outmatched. We're a football team. We're really outmatched. We probably are going to need to do some different things and do some things we're not, as always, comfortable with. You know, you could be safe and run the ball the whole time to limit how bad you get beat.
Or, you know, you could make some decisions, say, I know I'm good at these shots. I'm just not always comfortable playing them. Now is the time to do it. And again, the role of parents and coaches is to help make kids feel safe enough to do that and safe enough to try things, and they're not going to get, you know, chastised after. And look, teammates, you know, teammates, you never know what your teammate was trying to do. You want to assume that they were trying to do their best for the team. So if they tried something and it didn't work out and they make a devil, that's not a time to, you know, make them feel bad about that. Like, if you want to have a really, really strong team, there has to be a lot of support for each other and support for each other's, you know, decisions, even when they don't turn out. And that's, you know, that goes for parents and coaches, too. You can always talk about it, but there should never be any guilt or shame on some of these decisions that they make because that's a part of exploring and growing in this game.
[00:52:55] Speaker C: Hey, Nate, real quick question, because I just learned a lot of information, things I don't think about at events like this. And Albert pointed out, again, I'm going to go back to the average score per hole.
You, as a coach, when you see something like this, are you looking at this information to prepare yourself?
You know, me as a parent, if I. If I was a coach and I was coaching a team for the first time here at state, number one, I'm asking, can I have an emotional support animal after whole 13 so these kids can smile? Because it is that 9 through 13 stretch is you see a lot of kids get upset and that can either destroy the rest of your day or how do you recover from that? And I think going back to what Albert said earlier, with parents, knowing that that's a tough stretch of holes, hey, we know it's going to be tough. Let's be there for our kid because we know when they get through there, they're going to be upset. So I want to bring that back in a little bit. But you as a coach, do you ever look at some of these courses and know where it could get tough for your players?
[00:53:53] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's a wonderful thing to discuss here, too. Real quick, we were. We haven't been to state as a team in a little while, but the last time we were there, we actually had kind of our sixth guy at the time time, his job was to make sure we had the cart in specific places because at Prairie View, it's difficult to even get that cart around because there are so many spectators and so many people. So I Think when we look at the data, I want to figure out, where do I need to be, where can my assistant be, and how do we make sure that we get to the places our players need us? And then we'll also discuss that plan with our players. So, for instance, Trent, if you're playing in the middle of my lineup, you're playing at three. Three, I'm going to get to you a lot. I'm probably spending 40% of my day with you. But if you're playing one or five, I know that more than likely my five is going to need me in that nine to 13 stretch or he or she's going to be in tears or throwing something.
So I think as Albert's discussing this data, I'm a, I'm a golf nerd. And those are the things that we always kind of look at. I would also say I had a question. Albert, was Cash one of the first guys you coached, then graduating out of Ball State.
[00:55:01] Speaker A: After it was. It was a couple years after. It was a couple years after. And yeah, okay.
[00:55:06] Speaker B: Because he won by eight. And then I had Trent. You care if I ask it like 13 specific question.
[00:55:12] Speaker C: You can ask any questions you want to, Albert.
[00:55:15] Speaker B: So, Albert, you have, you have seven girls there. You've worked speed with all of them. Are any of those girls looking at that back left bunker on 13 or is that just not even a possibility?
[00:55:29] Speaker A: The issue is how the ball would get there if it was. If the player had under their three wood range and they felt like they could hit something high and in a cut, that would be okay. But if it's something that's going to be drawing and it's going to be a little bit flatter, if it misses that bunker, we're in pretty big trouble. On the guy side, you know, it's similar if they have a high cut with a long iron. You know, I'm okay with it depending on the wind direction. Just because you sometimes get a little different wind in the spring there where for the girls, it should be helping a little bit. And off the left.
[00:56:08] Speaker B: Yeah, correct.
[00:56:10] Speaker A: So I'm not against it. Depending on the pin location and how that player would feel about their bunker game. Again, like if, like if they feel like being in the bunker is an advantage, that's a place that I would be fine with them, you know, going at all day.
[00:56:21] Speaker C: And the current state of the bunkers at Prairie View, that's what you have to consider as well.
[00:56:26] Speaker B: Super specific question. But obviously cash won by 8. So your game plan worked pretty well. They're just getting him in those bunkers. So I wouldn't. I wasn't sure, like, what percentage of the field could even hit that shot. To your point, like, the high cut is not an easy shot to play, right?
[00:56:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Especially with a long club, it's easy to kind of wind up just kind of flailing it out right towards.
That's the issue, too. If it was a creek in front of the green and. And your drop wasn't basically in the same place, slightly different story. But because that drop there, the risk, you know, if you're really adding up, you know, all the decimals on the risk. Oh, yeah, you have to, you know, where you have to drop is the big issue. And that's one of the things that pulls the average actually so high is you get some sixes and sevens, but you get a whole lot of tens and, you know, go. You know, player goes left bunker and then they go in the water, then they drop and then go the water again, because they never. All for the same reason. They just never get it far enough up the left side in that second half of the hole. But, yeah, I think that staying, you know, to your point, Trent, if you get out of position on that hole or any reset your expectations, go make a six.
You're only really. Actually, if you make a six on 13, compared to numbers that we've had in the past, you're going to gain about 0.25 to 0.5 strokes on the field, and maybe you're losing about 0.5 to the top five players, but that's okay, like, you know, going in, into some of these scores, you know, Ashley Kirkland had a couple good years to finish her high school career at State. She had some holes where she, you know, had a bogey or, you know, a double or something, but she was also making up for it in a lot of other areas. So.
[00:58:08] Speaker C: Well, I think just kind of have.
[00:58:09] Speaker A: To take it as it comes.
[00:58:11] Speaker C: Yeah. Just looking at this right away, if you look at round one last year, because I think that's a better way to look at it, because a lot of times round one in that hole is what scares everybody because it's the first time they've seen it in competition, a lot of these girls. And last year, 22 double bogeys, 18 others.
And when I look at that across the board, that and 16 were the two hardest holes when it came to others.
But I think with what you're saying, though, is you could easily turn a 5 into a 10 real quick on that hole, if you don't do what we were talking about earlier is reposition yourself, breathe, and play the hole from there rather than, okay, I got to make up a shot for this, and I've got to get there.
I've seen it. I saw somebody I know quite dear to my heart do that her first year. And then last year, I actually saw her on day two kind of go on those left bunkers and have to reset herself to where next thing you know, after she reset herself, put the ball six feet from the hole and saved, you know, almost got her par, but then took bogey and moved on. And I think that's what we were talking about earlier is reset yourself and refocus, move on. Because again, you. You go seven or eight. Now you're going into 14 upset. And on day two last year, 14 had a lot of doubles or more because of the girls being upset, and they're tired and they're worn down at that point. So like you said, Albert, just be smart and reset yourself.
Now, a couple more questions, and we'll kind of end here. I'm probably going to split this into two episodes just because there's a lot that we've done here, and I think it'd be good to do it that way.
[00:59:46] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:59:47] Speaker C: But obviously, I want to talk a little bit about the teams and kind of go there. And I don't know if I want to get into individuals too much because it is a team competition, and I really. Regionals is more fun to talk about individuals, who's going to get through and stuff. I really don't want to put expectations down on players if they listen to this, but when it comes to teams, Nate, I'm going to let you kind of go here and let Albert and I chime in.
Can anyone take down the defending state champ?
[01:00:13] Speaker B: You know, I'll go back to kind of what I said earlier, and I should have been a little more clear on the data that. That I pulled. That was from the top five teams at the preview. So when I was siding 2, 11, 16, and 18, to Albert's point, those are 25 of the more talented players. So the. The more difficult holes were a little different. But the reason I did that, Trent, was I wanted to see, like, the parts of the golf course that are going to determine the tournament and what I look at and what I see, because I assume your question is, can anyone beat Zions?
I think that Carmel is very talented, but they're also very young.
But one thing that I actually see here is Noblesville played 9 and 18 and 15 over par and those were their counting four scores only.
So right there they go from getting beat by, I don't know, 18 or 19 strokes to right in there just cleaning up some things. I think it's going to be a tall task because you have Taylor, who is probably the best player field you have. I mean, they have five girls who've shot under par this year with tournament experience as the defending state champions. Hamilton Southeastern has a couple girls who can get it under par and have shown that ability as well. Franklin in Noblesville. I'm excited to watch the golf. I don't want to get into making too many predictions, but I will say that just Noblesville played 16 pretty good holes at the preview. They need to clean up nine and they need to clean up 18 because you can't play those in nine and six over par respectively. But you know, shorter golf course. But they kicked out a 77 last weekend. So I don't want to totally dismiss the rest of the field because as Albert talked about, it's different pressure.
You're also playing with the pressure of defending your state championship. And let's not Forget these are 15 and 16 year old girls or younger for that Zionsville team.
[01:02:06] Speaker C: Correct.
[01:02:07] Speaker B: Which, which I think what they're able to do makes it even more impressive that we talked about this on the boys show. Trent, you have the same 12 girls continue to shoot 69, 68, 67. And these are girls Albert works with. So their mechanics are great. But also that mental toughness is, is next level. So I'm excited to watch the golf. I'm going to be down there on Friday, excited to see you guys, but I would love to see somebody push Zionsville so we can have a really, really good day too down that home stretch because that back nine at Prairie View is a lot of fun to watch.
[01:02:39] Speaker C: It is one of the interesting things last year if you go back and look, look at day two of the top four teams and I think every single player had bogey or war except for Olivia Fowler where she took a birdie on the last hole. Even Taylor triple bogey at 18 last year because the pressure started kicking in. So I think obviously like 18 gets skewed that day because all of a sudden those teams playing for the title, the pressure kicks in. One of the things I do want to point out, you talk about the state preview and some of the scores. Westfield was missing Kelsey Haverluck at that point. So we have to remember Westfield. Can they get on the podium? It's a great question. I do know that Wednesday before the end of the season, right before Monday when everybody Friday and Saturdays, Monday when everybody did their sectionals, HSC, Carmel and Noblesville did have a three way match at the state setup where HSC went 310, Carmel went 313 and Nobles won 318. And I think I always say in girls golf, boys you got to have one through four strong players for to win the state title. If you're 1 and 2 come in in a girls golf and they come in strong, you're setting the tone for the rest of your team and setting yourself up for success for both days. So I don't care which team we're talking about that shows up, if they're one and two come in and shoot low 70s, you're putting yourself in position to compete against Zionsville.
That's all I'll say.
I really don't. Again, I don't want to talk about individuals because I don't think it's fair. But I think you're right.
There's a lot of great Taylors at this tournament coming up and I know Albert's going to be down there watching everybody he can. I know he's got seven girls and again I'm going to be down there. Obviously Sophie tee's off at 10:40. My plan is to be there early and so I can see all the players tee off. And I also think for Carmel and I think this is what we forget with Carmel and hsc.
They have the last tee off times.
Everybody's gonna be on the course. So when you're teeing off in front of as I talked joke with the girl is a million people and it's your first state, that's a tough time. You know your first tee shots if you're a freshman or a sophomore, when you're teeing off at Prairie View on number one in front of that many people compared to Carmel's youth is going to be teeing off with really no one there except for parents and friends and family.
So that's a big difference at state and I'm a true believer in that. So especially for day one when you're setting that tone.
[01:05:02] Speaker B: Yeah, but you can kind of have some different weather. You can kind of have some different weather kick in the afternoon too.
As far as like the wind, I would certainly not just totally discount that as well. Trent.
[01:05:14] Speaker C: Yeah, well, the, the greens will be drier, they won't be as dewy on. The dew will be off the green. So they'll actually be rolling more true, too, around 10:30 or 11 than they are at 8:30 in the morning. Because I think we saw that at Edgewood this last weekend where girls weren't hitting putts early on, and it took time for putts to start dropping because the greens weren't rolling true yet. And I think Prairie View could be in that same condition as you. Those early groups tee off at 8:30.
It's that time of year where a lot of dew on the ground.
Albert, any final words for everybody? And again, thank you for your time.
[01:05:47] Speaker A: Yeah, totally.
I put a lot of effort into, you know, helping my players, but, you know, ultimately I do want, you know, it's kind of like I just hope both teams have fun. I want these girls to have a good experience. You know, I had great experiences at state when, you know, when I was that age and, you know, I had great, you know, teammates and coaches. The girls coach for Homestead, Rob Parker, he was actually the boys coach back when I was at Homestead. And so it's a really, really great time.
[01:06:13] Speaker C: It is.
[01:06:13] Speaker A: And, you know, I'm rooting for everybody to play their best. And then we see kind of how it shakes out.
To any girls that might be listening, I would say to one, be grateful for and be proud of yourself for everything that you've done up until this moment.
That's number one.
Number two, believe that you can do great things. I write note cards for a lot of my players, you know, before they play. And on one of them, before the regional, I wrote to this player that I've worked with for, you know, a long time. It was a quote that I heard where this woman, she said, you know, you pray and you hope that the bus will be there when you get there, but after that, you've got to run like hell and you've got to just try as hard as you can to get to it. And that's a vulnerable thing, to try as hard as you can. It's a vulnerable thing to say, like, no, I really think I can do this and I'm going to put my all towards it. But when it comes to a big moment, whether you fail or succeed, we don't know. But what we do know for sure is that to succeed, it's going to take your best effort and it's going to take all of you.
And I told one of my first girls that when she went to regional, I knew she probably was not going to make it.
She was a senior. And, I mean, this was like 2017. I said, look, if you don't make it. You should be sad, you should be crying. You should be upset. I'll cry with you. Because we've put a lot into this, but we're not gonna phone it in and blame other stuff or just to say, oh, it's not my day. We're going to give it everything we have. And if we're exhausted and crying after it, then that's what it is. And I'm just a big believer in trying, because when we try, we learn, we grow. But it's really easy, especially, you know, kind of in this day and age with so many eyes on us and so many expectations, to just kind of hole up a little bit and try to cover yourself and not really fully give it everything that you have. Not fully be yourself, not fully enjoy the moment. But I just encourage anybody who's playing, and parents as well, to try really, really hard to show up your best and then forgive yourself and give yourself grace if you don't, because that's really all that we can do, not to preach too much. My dad's a pastor and sometimes I get going that way. But really all we can do is try to show up our best with the right intentions and then give ourselves grace afterward to keep growing and then try again next time. So that's what I would want for all the players and for the parents and coaches, too.
[01:08:59] Speaker C: So my only advice for parents. My advice for parents is enjoy the moment, Breathe, smile, and be proud. There's nothing more cool as a parent than when you see your child have success like this and making it to state success. I don't care if it's part of a team or as an individual. You got there. So enjoy the success, be proud, breathe and smile, because that's what your kids need. I had fun asking those girls the other night, what do you expect from your parents? And it cracked me up listening to all of them.
Some are like, be quiet somewhere, don't talk to me because I'm going to be nervous. But that, that was great because they need to be able to tell their parents that stuff you don't need to hear, dad.
Oh, what? You know, that type of stuff.
But, Albert, Nate, thank you. This was a great episode. I really enjoyed talking to all of you.
[01:09:52] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to this episode of from the Card Path with your host, Trent Roberts. Please be sure to like and subscribe.
[01:09:59] Speaker B: On your favorite podcast platform so that you never miss an episode.
